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July 12, 2017: Windows Driver Version 2 Build 23g now Available
July 5, 2017: Aurora(n)-USB Driver Version 3.34 for Windows Available
February 27, 2017: Hilo Firmware 8 User Manual now Available
January 9, 2017: Hilo Firmware 8 Updater Available

Dante for Lynx Hilo

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Grauwacke View Drop Down
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Joined: March/13/2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grauwacke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2017 at 8:58am
Hi, all!

For more than a week I enjoy the sound quality of the LT-Dante card. Definitely an improvement over the USB connection.
But I encounter a minor problem in terms of single-valued glitches, which occur randomly (and about one to five times per minute) on one of the channels. To separate and identify the source of this problem, I made a test with a second Dante device. The setup looks like this:

Server: MacPro (Mac OS 10.8.6), files upsampled with SaraCon to 48kHz and saved in flac format.
Player software: JRiver Media Center with direct access to the Dante Virtual sound card running at 48kHz.
In the Dante controller I combined the two channels going out to the unDAES and Hilo in one multicast flow.
Network: Switches from Netgear GS 105, cables all CAT 6 and CAT7.
 
For the comparison the unDAES-O (Atterotech, a Dante-AES converter) and the LT-Dante (Hilo) were connected with short Ethernet cables to the same switch. Actual latencies for both unDAES and LT-Dante are well below 2ms (mostly around 1ms).

Power supply of the Hilo is done with a so-called Eupen cable (about 1 m length), which has increasing damping in the MHz region (essentially, it improves the staging of the Hilo in our HF-contaminated 220V power lines).
 
The AES output of the unDAES goes via XLR cable (60cm, Pin 1 open, shielding of cable connected to ground of connectors on both ends) to AES digital in of the Hilo.
Switching between Dante and AES input on Hilo done in the Routing page (works very nice!). All input levels set to 0dB.
Monitoring of the signal with a Stax MK II and Lambda Pro fed from the Monitor output (set to analog attenuation).
 
Metering of Digital in and Monitor out shows now exactly the same levels, but in a random fashion glitches are visible in the Monitor output (but not in Digital in) and can be cleary heared with the ear phones. They occur more on the left channel and seem to be single values, which stand above the current signal by several dB.

Glitches do not occur, when input is changed to AES in (fed from the unDAES).
Changing the Monitor metering to AES output metering shows glitches as well.

My interpretation: It is not the computer, who creates the glitches, because they do not occur in the unDAES conversion to AES -> Hilo digital in.
For me, it looks like some timing problem within the Hilo after the receipt of the Dante packages, but the experts will know betterWink

Does anybody else observe this phenomenon?

With best regards,
Helge







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tomcowland View Drop Down
Caracal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomcowland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 2:13am
Hey folks,

I have the Dante card in my Hilo (fantastic combo btw). Not had too much time to investigate yet, but I too have heard occasional clicks. Not as frequently - maybe every 10 mins or so. Usually across both channels so they appear centre in the stereo image.

This is listening to a 2ch stream at 44.1k via the DVS on a MacBook air. The Hilo is preferred master on the network and set to clock from Dante, synchrolock is green. There are no packet errors reported in the Dante Controller for either device.

Sorry haven't had a chance to try the a/d side yet or via another source. Will let you know as I learn any more.

Many thanks in advance,
Tom

Edited by tomcowland - March/14/2017 at 2:14am
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Grauwacke View Drop Down
Caracal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grauwacke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 9:02am
Hi, all!

The problem with the glitches has been solvedSmile
Changing the Hilo clock from Internal to Dante removed them completely.
btw, the glitches were only on one of the channels, not on both simultaneously as described by Tom above.

Best regards,
Helge

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David A Hoatson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David A Hoatson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 9:38am
Helge,

Thanks for the note.  With Firmware 8 on the Hilo if you do a Restore Defaults it will set the clock source to Dante as that is the standard configuration when using the LT-DANTE card.

I understand that the terminology in Dante Controller can be a bit confusing.  The "Enable Sync To External" check box needs to be set if the Hilo (or Aurora) is set to anything other than "Dante" (LSlot on Aurora).  In other words, if the Hilo is set to Internal, Dante Controller MUST have "Enable Sync To External" checked.  This is why the Hilo defaults to Dante on a Restore Defaults.
Thank you,

David A. Hoatson
Lynx Studio Technology, Inc.
Co-founder, Chief Software Engineer
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Grauwacke View Drop Down
Caracal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grauwacke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 12:26pm
David,

I agree: a bit confusingConfused
Hilo is Master but syncs to Dante, but who sets now the timing in the Dante network? My Mac hopefully not, because its clock is off with -47 ppm (relative to Hilo). The unDAES is off only -2ppm.
Best regards and thanks
Helge

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tomcowland View Drop Down
Caracal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomcowland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 12:36pm
Good to your you're now glitch-free Helge, sadly I've been on dante clock all along. Going to try and do some more tests...

'Best
Tom
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Grauwacke View Drop Down
Caracal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grauwacke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 12:45pm
Hi, Tom
I wonder how your Macbook Air is connected to the Dante network, because I didnt see a proper RJ45 connector for ethernet in the specs at Apple?
best regards,
Helge
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tomcowland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomcowland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 1:01pm
Hey, its with an Apple Thunderbolt adapter. I'm not seeing any packet loss in the Dante Controller though (was before with a bad cable).

'best
Tom
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David A Hoatson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David A Hoatson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 1:13pm
Timing Master is always shown in Dante Controller on the Clock Status tab and also in the header of the window.
Thank you,

David A. Hoatson
Lynx Studio Technology, Inc.
Co-founder, Chief Software Engineer
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tomcowland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomcowland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 1:13pm
Hey folks,  for what it's worth, I just tried on Hilo internal clock (with appropriate clock setting adjustments in the Dante Controller), and have had 20 mins click free.

Love the sound of this thing.
'best
Tom
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Mike N View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2017 at 3:50pm
Tom, in Dante Controller, is "Enable Sync To External" checked?
Michael Nicoletti
Lynx Studio Technology
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714-545-4700 Ext. 211
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tomcowland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomcowland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2017 at 12:29am
Hey Michael,

Yeah (the Dante Controller is happy it has a valid external source too). Out of interest, is this the right understanding:

  - Each Brooklyn board has its own clock that can be elected to network master.
  - When you're clocking the Hilo to Dante, then the Hilo uses that instead of its internal clock.
  - If you turn on SyncroLock then the Hilo (tries to) sync its clock to the Brooklyn board clock (so you'd get any benefits from the improved stability of the Hilo clock)

or

  - If you use Internal clock and correctly configure the Dante setup, then the Hilo's Internal clock is fed to the Brooklyn board as an 'external' clock source, the Hilo clock (can) become the network clock.

Many thanks,
Tom



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xtraktz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xtraktz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2017 at 2:06am
What interface will be sound better for home system Dante or Thunderbolt ?
Is there any point in changing my LT-TB card with Synergistic Research Thunderbolt Active SE cable (It's really better than an Apple TB cable) for LT-Dante if I use mac mini as a transport/player, and the files are stored on NAS connected through ethernet to router->mac mini.
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nikander View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2017 at 11:53am
Dear Michael, Dear David,

can`t appreciate enough how versatile your products are - esp. long term.
I don`t know many companies who listen to their customers that carefully and who offer continous updates in all of their products.
As I have told LT-Dante has turned my Hilo in another "beast" - the sound is more transparent, imaging is now even more "rock solid".
I suppose that most of the Hilo Reviews have to be done again....
One technical question:
It takes about a minute for SynchroLock to adjust to Dante Clock in my system - why is it advisable to turn SynchroLock on?
And another question: you are advertising a new version of SynchroLock ("2") in your new Aurora converters - is it different from Hilo`s SynchroLock?

regards,

Christian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by xtraktz xtraktz wrote:

What interface will be sound better for home system Dante or Thunderbolt ?

There should be no difference sonically. Thunderbolt will provide lower latency operation to and from your computer though. 

Originally posted by xtraktz xtraktz wrote:

Is there any point in changing my LT-TB card with Synergistic Research Thunderbolt Active SE cable (It's really better than an Apple TB cable)

I've never encountered any data to indicate that there is any benefit to that. It should not sound any different, perhaps more reliable...

Paul Erlandson
Lynx Studio Technology
Support
714-545-4700 x 206
Lynx Support and Updates on Facebook!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by nikander nikander wrote:


It takes about a minute for SynchroLock to adjust to Dante Clock in my system - why is it advisable to turn SynchroLock on?
And another question: you are advertising a new version of SynchroLock ("2") in your new Aurora converters - is it different from Hilo`s SynchroLock?

Synchrolock allows the unit to slave to an external clock while still referencing its crystal oscillator. Crystal is more accurate than a PLL so there is a reduction in jitter. The Dante clock is very low jitter, so you might be fine turning syncrhrolock OFF in this case. 

Syncjhrolock 2 is more accurate than the original synchrolock and locks more quickly, @ 1/2 the time of synchrolock 1. It is only on the Aurora(n), not on the Hilo. 


Paul Erlandson
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nikander View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2017 at 12:42pm
thanks a lot for your information!
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xtraktz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xtraktz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/01/2017 at 3:42am
Originally posted by PaulTech PaulTech wrote:

Originally posted by xtraktz xtraktz wrote:

What interface will be sound better for home system Dante or Thunderbolt ?

There should be no difference sonically. Thunderbolt will provide lower latency operation to and from your computer though. 

Nikander has a real sound improvements when moving from USB to Dante. According to reviews from other users Thunderbolt sounds better than USB interface. But both aren't galvanically isolated like Dante. Perhaps this is the reason for the superiority of the Dante, when playing music from a computer? But I did not see anywhere comparing Hilo's Dante vs Thunderbolt.

Is it possible to transfer audio data through DLNA using direct ethernet connection mac (using Roon or Jriver) ->Hilo ?


Edited by xtraktz - September/01/2017 at 3:43am
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